Clutch assembly from a Series 3 or 2/2A
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AJT4
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A Hopeless Case !


Joined: 18 Sep 2016
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Location: Chester, Cheshire

PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Its usual with my Series 3!

It is very odd, not sure if the Series 3 one it may (or may not of had) failed and they had a Series 2 one in house and decided to do a bodge swap. Its a very odd swap.

I'd rather swap the bell housing to a Series 3 if this is still possible? Below is the current state of the bellhousing and shaft.




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1972 Land Rover Series 3 88 SWB Fairey Overdrive
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gilbo
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well that is definitely S2/2a bellhousing.
Should be perfectly possible to swap back to a S3 bellhousing (from the box number quoted earlier & I assume it is all synchro then you have a S3 box), in fact it is possible to fit a S3 bellhousing to a S2a box (of the correct suffix).
It might prove a bit tricky to do the swop in situ as you have to juggle the layshaft, conical spacer and gear as you fit the housing - much easier if the box is stood up!
You will also have to source the arm and clip for locating the release bearing along with the pipe and slave cylinder for the replacement bellhousing as the hydraulics are on the passenger side and not as current.
Take care too with the release bearing make - the quality varies considerably and I have seen some of the cheaper ones fail very early in their lives - well they are plastic!!
Ideally a parts book will help explain what you need.
HTH
Edited to add...
PS - just thought on, IIRC I think you will need the input shaft and matching layshaft gear as the current input shaft uses a LH thread nut and the S3 one a circlip and the way in which the release bearing fits is completely different - can't fully remember as it is a long while since I messed with 'mixed' boxes. Ideally you need to get hold of the complete assembly from someone - or possibly a whole box (for spares?).
TBH the 'easiest' fix for what you currently have is simply fit the correct S2a cover onto what you have got - might then need to review the length of the bodged up pushrod though but obviously it is your choice.
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AJT4
A Hopeless Case !
A Hopeless Case !


Joined: 18 Sep 2016
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Location: Chester, Cheshire

PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
In some ways I'd rather return to a series 3 original but it could be a costly exercise.

If I was to use the 2a clutch pressure plate ( https://goo.gl/wKrnds ) would this fit onto a 9.5 inch clutch Plate? Also I do have a new 2a pushrod, presume if I was to fit the 2a setup the extended pushrod wouldn't be required because it would be kept up by the boss?

The input shaft does have the special nut on (looks like it could be fun to remove)but the layshaft has the securing bolt and washer from the series 3. I think the input shaft is from a 2 as it is different from the series 3 input shaft I'm using as a clutch alignment tool.
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Alan Drover
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Joined: 31 Oct 2013
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Location: North West Hampshire

PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Afternoon Ash.
The rule of thumb when buying a clutch assembly it should be for the gearbox type irrespective of what engine is fitted.
You seem to have a hybrid gearbox as the number is for an early Series 3 all synchro box but what is unknown is whether it is the original. I don't think a Heritage Build Certificate would give the gearbox number.
At a local vintage show last Sunday a mate had a complete Series 3 gearbox complete with transfer box,condition unknown, but getting it to you from Hampshire would not be easy.
. Alan Drover
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Also a 1977 Stage 2 MGB GT.
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gilbo
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
OK - a little bit of history first. The original petrol engines in S2/2a used a 9" clutch plate and corresponding cover which was a different design to the 9 1/2" cover. The diesels had 9 1/2" fitted as original. LR (and owners) started fitting 9 1/2" clutches to the petrols as time went on - ok so there was a difference on the petrols in the way the dowels are spaced in the flywheel but easy to get around if you knew what to do.
So, to your 'opportunity'.
You already have a 9 1/2" cover, albeit for the S3 release mechanism so the dowels will all be correct as LR fitted 9 1/2" clutches into the S3 from new (I believe). So, yes - with that cover in your link then your 9 1/2" plate will fit perfectly.
As for the bellhousing - it is as I would expect - the input shaft is from the S2/2a bellhousing (actually it must be 2a from circa 1965ish onwards as the earlier boxes used a smaller diameter front laysaft bearing) and the layshaft itself will be from the original S3 box and as you correctly say has a bolt not a castellated nut (as per 2a).
The big nut on the input shaft is LH thread and although a pal of mine sells the tools to remove it it is easy enough (usually!!!) with a drift and hammer....however - unless you propose to replace the big bearing it runs through then there is absolutely no reason to touch it. The S3 shaft IIRC uses a circlip and not a nut.
As for the bearing inside the release mechanism cover (which I see you have removed) - it is very, very unusual to ever change that - it is so over-engineered, so providing it feels OK I would leave well alone, put a new gasket on and refit the release assembly as is!
As for your pushrod - if you have a new one then that is great as they are very expensive I think now to buy - yes you are correct in that the boss on the clutch cover 'should' take up the extra length that was gotten around by it not being fitted to the S3 cover by the PO welding some extra length in.
You may need to play with the adjustment a bit to get it right. Also check that the slave cylinder does not have a spacer thing fitted which will also affect the rod travel. Finally you do not need the spring that the early S2s had fitted between the end of the pushrod and the bracket - effectively enabling the rod to retract all the way up into the cylinder after each press of the clutch by retracting the plunger in the cylinder - this idea was dispensed with very early on and the clutch will be 'self-adjusting' without it.
Ideally you could do with the relevant bit of the manual to get the full picture but hopefully what is above will make sense - might even be too much information!!!!
Oh and finally - might be worth fitting new hardened steel pins (2 off) into the cross shaft mechanism while you are at it. They are not expensive (now!) and a right PITA to change if they shear when you are out and about!
HTH
cheers
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AJT4
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Alan Dover - Hampshire could be interesting. I've seen a couple on the internet which could be a option as a replacement.

gilbo - I've had to read you post a couple of times but manage to understand most of it and thanks for the comprehensive post. The clutch plate is I've got is in this link https://goo.gl/z1efh3 so should fit. The pushrod I got a good couple of months ago for a fiver, now I've seen the price has gone up to 30 quid plus.

If I was to remove the input shaft do I need to remove the big nut or does it come out when I remove the bellhousing?

Correct I have removed the clutch assembly,I'm not sure if the fork should be springing back or is meant to have some sort of resistance?

The slave cylinder I've got is for a 2a is in this link ( https://goo.gl/vMWJf6 ) not sure if it has the spacer or not. Its extended at the end compared to series 3 slave. I recently replaced the pins when I last attempted to repair the clutch.
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gilbo
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
AJT4 wrote:
Alan Dover - Hampshire could be interesting. I've seen a couple on the internet which could be a option as a replacement.

gilbo - I've had to read you post a couple of times but manage to understand most of it and thanks for the comprehensive post. The clutch plate is I've got is in this link https://goo.gl/z1efh3 so should fit. The pushrod I got a good couple of months ago for a fiver, now I've seen the price has gone up to 30 quid plus.

If I was to remove the input shaft do I need to remove the big nut or does it come out when I remove the bellhousing?

Correct I have removed the clutch assembly,I'm not sure if the fork should be springing back or is meant to have some sort of resistance?

The slave cylinder I've got is for a 2a is in this link ( https://goo.gl/vMWJf6 ) not sure if it has the spacer or not. Its extended at the end compared to series 3 slave. I recently replaced the pins when I last attempted to repair the clutch.


Hi
Firstly the clutch plate looks to be correct - just try sliding it on the gearbox splines to check first though before you fit it - oh, and make sure you fit it the correct way around - they are usually marked and IIRC the spline boss will not let you bolt the cover up if incorrect. Slave cyl looks correct too for the S2/2a - the S3 one is completely different and fits elsewhere anyway.
OK, so the the input shaft. If you intent to remove the bellhousing then it will come off with it in situ but unless you are planning to do more to the box then there is absolutely no need to remove it. If you look closely you will see that that are 4 bolts/studs which locate the bearing in place, hence it stays put. As I said somewhere earlier there is no need to undo that nut unless you intend replacing the bearing - and that is a bellhousing off job! In order to remove the bellhousing you need to undo the layshaft bolt and the four big nuts (BSF, I think) on the bolts/studs around the bellhousing itself - also make sure the locating bracket for the Low/High lever has been detached too!
As for the clutch release assembly - there is no return spring and should really be no resistance to speak of. The 'top hat' shaped piece that would normally contact the boss on the clutch cover should just move freely back and forth and rotate in the bearing - again really no need to strip this unless there is a problem and they are generally bullet-proof. Once coupled up to the slave cylinder and push rod and adjusted properly, then as you release the clutch pedal it will slide back pretty much on its own sufficiently. As I said there used to be a spring along side the pushrod (by the slave cylinder) many years ago but it was dispensed with by LR back in the '60's.
HTH
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AJT4
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
My plan of attack is to see what the bell housing goes for this week and if it stays at a decent price I may look at returning it back to a Series 3 set up. I have got a TRW Series 3 slave cylinder as well, just need source the brackets etc.

I'll have a look at doing it next week and I'll post an update once completed. I think actually the clutch lever and bracket is from a early Series 2 as the clutch lever is the early style one.
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