Repair, Replace or Upgrade????
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shifaa
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
gilbo wrote:
Well as the saying goes...you get what you pay for.


Not necessarily, unfortunately! There is a forum member who recently paid much the same price as Whitehouse are quoting only to find that the box was unable to select any gear.

It's a minefield. They can sell you the earth over the phone or via emails, but unless you stand and watch the box that you are buying being rebuilt, you have no idea what has gone into it or been done to it. Essentially, all you have is a salesman's word. Harsh but true, I'm afraid.

I agree with the above post, that if you are able, doing it yourself is much better and the quality parts are all available. Time was when you could get a group of enthusiasts together to do a job like this.
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Adie
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
More horror stories! Makes you feel the only satisfactory way is to do it yourself!

One way would be to try and pick up a second hand Series 3 gearbox and rebuild it yourself thereby minimising the time the Landy is off the road.

After the swap the original could always then be rebuilt using the knowledge learn't from the first build.

Would be a good 'spare' or something to sell on for a profit that would pay for the cost of both rebuilds.
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Yule
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hmmm, 'tis true I ave a spare box...... 'til also true that I'd like to ave a go meself. Only 100 for bearings you say? Only way to know what is changed you say? Wow, pressure is pointing towards a diy jobbie - not sure if I am strong enough to run from this one.
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Adie
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have not ever been in this situation and am not currently in it either, however working through the options with you and everyone else over the last few days.....if I were in your shoes right now, and had that spare box too....I think I would have a go.

There are a few tools you may need to consider also such as the main shaft nut tool and primary nut tool? Might be good for others with experience of a rebuild to chime in about now on the tools needed to help you out.
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gilbo
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Adie wrote:


There are a few tools you may need to consider also such as the main shaft nut tool and primary nut tool? Might be good for others with experience of a rebuild to chime in about now on the tools needed to help you out.

OK, so here's my tuppenceworth!
Firstly I assume we are talking S3 box here? If so then IIRC he won't need the primary nut tool (can manage without on a S2 box anyway) as the shaft is located throught the bearing using a circlip on the S3 box. The mainshaft rear nut tool is very useful but again you can manage without.
As I said earlier get a manual as it will tell you lots of things you may need to know.
Please don't get carried away with my earlier statement re the 100......from your description of the fault is is very, very likely you will be spending on more components!! You may decide some of the bearings (primary shaft and rear mainshaft, for example) are fine - much depends on the miles you think the box has already done and how many more you are planning (I think you said it doesn't get lots of use?)
I am a S2 man myself but have worked on a few S3 boxes over the years and there really isn't that much difference. Just to give you a heads up, I recently rebuilt a box for/with a mate of mine (the LH thread primary shaft nut had come undone!!!!! and took a lot of the box with it once the shaft had managed to remove itself from the bearing - never, evr seen one like that before!!!). We had to replace the 3rd/4th gear synchro hub, the bronge 2nd/3rd sleeve and its dowels, second gear pair (the layshaft gears are removable on a S2 box), first gear, all the bearings - front mainshaft one had disintegrated too!!!(SKF, RHP etc used), seals gaskets etc, reset the output shaft end float and reshim the intermediate gear. Cost - circa 300, maybe a bit less. Labour costs....a bottle of wine and half a dozen beers!!
You will have to consider the 1st/2nd synchro but most of that is small parts. I would suspect the bronze sleeve will be split (often is) and that takes a bit of fiddling to get the end floats correct. Oh, and the snap ring on the mainshaft can be a bit tricky too! But...all in all a very satisfying job and once you have completed it you will be a happy bunny.
If you are going to do the job then you will need a hoist to get the box out (you can split the transfer box off the back and do it that way but it is still pretty heavy a two bits!). I would suggest you take it out in one lump as that way you can clean the worst of the crud off, with minimal water ingress, before you start. I would also suggest you strip it all down first before you start ordering up all the parts - I hope you have a parts book....and consider exactly what you need (little dowels, snap rings etc)
As stated earlier you have no idea of what these reconditioners / refurbishers / rebuilders actually do for the money. At least this way you will know what is what.
HTH a little
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34HF90
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Excellent advice from Gilbo there.Wink

The more you look into this, the more it becomes apparent that as far as reconditioners are concerned, Series gearboxes are a loser for them.

If they do it properly, there is minimal profit, and if they do it on the cheap it'll probably bounce back and they will end up losing anyway.

Add into the mix that there are many non-standard power units out there, I guess one can understand why reconditioners tend to either say a flat 'no' or price them discouragingly high.

Doing it yourself is really the way to go and if you get stuck there are plenty of folks on here who have actually done it to give advice and much information about this on the web.

Smile
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Yule
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Some really good advice thanks folks. I do have a genuine parts book and a L/R repair manual. I also have a spare, albeit non-working, gearbox. I think that I am going to have a go myself.

At best I end up with a nice recon box ready for installation.

At worst I end up with a gearbox casing that doesn't work, but is full of nice new parts.
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Adie
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
If it's of any help Yule, there is a guy on Youtube who strips and rebuilds a Series 3 gearbox. He is also doing it for the first time so you can experience it how you will be seeing it! So maybe good to watch. It is in quite a lot of detail as it is in 14 parts!

Here is part 1:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yzUH1faG5Y
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Yule
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lol - thanks Adie, already got that one firmly saved in my favorites.

There is also a great thread on LR4X4:

http://forums.lr4x4.com/topic/72405-series-iii-gearbox-rebuild/?page=1

Sift out some of the chit chat, and it is a great source of information.
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Adie
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks Yule, not seen that before! Nice high res pics. Will keep that for when I am in your shoes!
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IronMan
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
shifaa wrote:
gilbo wrote:
Well as the saying goes...you get what you pay for.


Not necessarily, unfortunately! There is a forum member who recently paid much the same price as Whitehouse are quoting only to find that the box was unable to select any gear.

It's a minefield. They can sell you the earth over the phone or via emails, but unless you stand and watch the box that you are buying being rebuilt, you have no idea what has gone into it or been done to it. Essentially, all you have is a salesman's word. Harsh but true, I'm afraid.

I agree with the above post, that if you are able, doing it yourself is much better and the quality parts are all available. Time was when you could get a group of enthusiasts together to do a job like this.



I wonder if that was me!!? I've been to gearbox hell and back..!
Laughing
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Yule
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
....and I still haven't done anything about replacement as yet. perhaps I'll make a decision after another nice cup of tea..............
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Adie
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
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