Series 3 with 2.5 Defender petrol engine

 
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woodhamracing
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:51 pm    Post subject: Series 3 with 2.5 Defender petrol engine Reply with quote
Good evening all,

I have recently bought a 1979 88Ē which has a Defender 2.5 petrol conversion. Running Weber Dmtl carb. Under full load it starts spluttering and stuggling and is terrible up hills. I have diagnosed the problem as lift pump not keeping up with carb. It is running the glass bowl style lift pump at present, I bought a new one and have noticed that it only just touches the cam lobe in the engine. I was wondering if anyone could offer some advice.
I thought about machining the mounting block so it was thinner to unable the lift pump to engage on the lobe better.
I understand itís a fairly common conversion so wondering what others use or if there was a different lift pump more suitable.
Would like to avoid the cost of an electric pump if possible.

Thank you in advance
Rich
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Alan Drover
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Evening Rich.
I have a 2.5 engine in my Series 3, however it using the Zenith 36IV from the Series 3 and it goes extremely well and pulls very strongly and there is no spluttering or any other problems.
I was fed up of the poor quality of the pattern part glass bowl lifter pump so I paid a visit to Westover Land Rover at Old Sarum. The glass bowl pump has been superseded by the lifter pump from the Tdi engine and is a straight fit on the 2.5 petrol. It comes with a short length of fuel line to connect to the Series 3 fuel pipes and the Tdi block is the same as the 2.5 petrol and diesel engines that preceded it.
I'm about 25 or so miles east of you. We could perhaps meet if you're willing and I'll show you my 2.5 set up. Send me a pm if you're willing to do so.
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Alan Drover.
1975 SWB hardtop with a 2.5 petrol engine, overdrive, front disc brakes, parabolic springs, hand throttle, Defender doors and Wolf wheels.
Also a 1977 Stage 2 MGB GT.
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knappster
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
My Series 3used to have the old mechanism cal fuel pump, tried briefly before I found that it wasnít up to the demands of the 2.5 petrol so I changed to the electric pump as Alan mentions. If youíve got the original pump from the original engine, that will be the problem.

A look at Alanís Landy would be helpful. Smile
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Rich.

Owner of a 200Tdi 90 and a soon-to-be 200Tdi Series 3...
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Alan Drover
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rich k.
It's not an electric pump. The Tdi lift pump operates from the camshaft just as the Series 3 glass bowl pump does. Only pattern glass bowl pumps are available now, that's why I got the genuine Tdi one from a main dealer.
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Alan Drover.
1975 SWB hardtop with a 2.5 petrol engine, overdrive, front disc brakes, parabolic springs, hand throttle, Defender doors and Wolf wheels.
Also a 1977 Stage 2 MGB GT.
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knappster
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I had an electric pump but clearly not the same as the Tdi one then! The mechanical one wasnít up to the job. The guy who I used to fit the pump got the electric pump from LR.
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Rich.

Owner of a 200Tdi 90 and a soon-to-be 200Tdi Series 3...
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Alan Drover
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rich, the 90 & 110 with the 2.5 petrol engine had an electric pump as standard. The genuine Tdi pump easily keeps up with the fuel demanded and it's a straight swap, just the fuel lines to adapt, bits supplied.
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Alan Drover.
1975 SWB hardtop with a 2.5 petrol engine, overdrive, front disc brakes, parabolic springs, hand throttle, Defender doors and Wolf wheels.
Also a 1977 Stage 2 MGB GT.


Last edited by Alan Drover on Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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woodhamracing
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Spot on. Thank you for the advice. Looks like a TDI one will be well worth a go. I did wonder if a diesel lift pump would be suitable with petrol and the shape of the arm looks to be much more relevant. The glass bowl unit just doesnít seem to reach the cam enough.
If all else fails I may look at going to the electric route but just wanted to avoid the wiring etc.
Filter wise do you run a inline one as you havenít got the sediment catch bowl?

Also slightly off topic but does your temp gauge work with the 2.5. Mines all wired etc but nothing shows on the gauge, I swapped the actual gauge as I had a spare and was messing with the dash and it made no difference. Suspect the sensor is no good but wasnít sure if to order a 2.25 one or 2.5...
Would be great to meet up at some point, many elements I would be interested in having a look at. Flat out at the moment though and just about finding time to turn a spanner on the Land Rover.
I need to get her running right before the missus gets bored of hearing me moaning about it!
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Alan Drover
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I found the cheap pattern part glass bowl pump couldn't keep up with the fuel needed so I visited Westover at Old Sarum and was told that Land Rover no longer manufacture the glass bowl pump, now replaced by the Tdi one which can keep up. I have an inline filter just before the carburettor. I bought it from Ratsport in London and it comes to pieces so the filter can be cleaned and reused.
The temperature gauge sender must match the gauge so as, presumably,you have the Series 3 gauge then the Series 3 sender must be used.
Would like to meet and compare notes so send me a pm when you are able to meet.
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Alan Drover.
1975 SWB hardtop with a 2.5 petrol engine, overdrive, front disc brakes, parabolic springs, hand throttle, Defender doors and Wolf wheels.
Also a 1977 Stage 2 MGB GT.
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woodhamracing
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thank you for the help Alan.
I have called westover and will collect lift pump kit tomorrow. Ordered a inline filter from ratsport and a new temperature sensor
Hopefully I will be able to square away some of these problems

Il let you know how it goes

Cheers
Rich
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Alan Drover
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Evening Rich w.
Has your 2.5 got the correct distributor? It can be identified by the sliding contact breaker points with a blue collar as opposed to the Series 3 red.
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Alan Drover.
1975 SWB hardtop with a 2.5 petrol engine, overdrive, front disc brakes, parabolic springs, hand throttle, Defender doors and Wolf wheels.
Also a 1977 Stage 2 MGB GT.
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woodhamracing
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Morning Alan

Prior to diagnosing the fuel issue I suspected it may be an ignition problem so I renewed the complete system with a powersparks set up. Coil, complete distributer and new leads. Iím still trying to find the sweet spot for the timing as I seem to either have excessive back firing or it runs on a little when I turn it off. But runs spot on.

But.... I got round to fitting the Tdi lift pump yesterday and it has totally cured the fuel starvation, thank you for your help with it, I wouldnít have thought to fit the Tdi lift pump.
I gave the her a bit of thrashing up a steep hill near our house and it pulled like a train and never missed a beat, I even think it would give my ford ranger a run for its money!
Brilliant, thank you Alan.

Now to fit new rear springs, get the oil pressure light working, temp gauge, new tyres etc etc etc 🙄

Thank you
Rich
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Alan Drover
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Morning Rich w.
Thought that would solve the problem.
I timed my engine with it running. I posted the details recently on the forum but can't find the thread.
If you're interested I can pm the information to you.
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Alan Drover.
1975 SWB hardtop with a 2.5 petrol engine, overdrive, front disc brakes, parabolic springs, hand throttle, Defender doors and Wolf wheels.
Also a 1977 Stage 2 MGB GT.
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woodhamracing
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have found your thread and will have a fettle later. I donít think itís too far out.
I little retarded a suspect.

Thank you for your help Alan
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Alan Drover
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Afternoon Rich w.
When you have the engine running right don't check the strobe timing as it will probably be out. With modern fuel the timing figures are totally irrelevant. I haven't checked to see what the timing is on mine. It runs very well, doesn't pink and doesn't backfire on the overrun and that's good enough.
Have you tried it on the hill out of Chitterne going to Shrewton? Mine pulls well up it.
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Alan Drover.
1975 SWB hardtop with a 2.5 petrol engine, overdrive, front disc brakes, parabolic springs, hand throttle, Defender doors and Wolf wheels.
Also a 1977 Stage 2 MGB GT.
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